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CAC

When I saw CAC’s announcement that they were closing  their service to new collector members on May 1, I knew it was time to decide whether to join or not. As a member I could submit coins to CAC to receive a sticker indicating their opinion that the coins were “solid” for the grade, or what many call “PQ”. This would allow me to better hone my grading skills. Plus, CAC stickered coins sell more readily and frequently for more money. For coins I’m considering selling, a CAC sticker likely would be worth more than the $10 fee (plus shipping….).  On the other hand, submitting for CAC opinions is another way to spend money on coins, without getting any coins in return. At best they confirm what you already believe.

I decided to join. There is no membership fee so there is no cost except to use their service. And I can stop using it at any time if it no longer seems worth the time, effort, and cost. I submitted my application by email on April 26 and received a packet of information via snail mail on April 28 – that’s an efficient organization! Now I had to decide what to submit.

  1. I was only going to include buffalo nickels for this first submission.
  2. I wanted a range of MS grades so I chose two MS62s, MS63s, MS64s, MS65s, MS66s and one MS67 (I only owned one that I thought might be PQ). Discoveries: Not many of my MS62 coins are worth spending additional money on; I don’t own very many MS63s or MS65s; MS64 seems to be my most common grade. Eleven coins.
  3. I wanted to include some coins I’m about to sell: three more MS64s in addition to two coins in the grading set. Fourteen coins total.
  4. I wanted to include some varieties: two more MS64s in addition to the three varieties already included. Sixteen coins total.

I sent the parcel off on May 11, and the results posted today, May 21. Eight of the sixteen are PQ, according to CAC.

  • MS62: 2 submitted, 2 PQ: 1925-S, 1937-D 3 Legs
  • MS63: 2 submitted, 0 PQ. Both coins were in Old Green Holders
  • MS64: 7 submitted, 5 PQ: 1913-D Type I 2F, 1913-D Type I 2F, 1913 Type II, 1914, 1935-S DDR1
  • MS65: 2 submitted, 0 PQ
  • MS66:  2 submitted, 1 PQ: 1931-S
  • MS67:  1 submitted, 0 PQ

Observations:

  • Four of the five varieties I submitted are PQ! Three of these are coins I submitted raw to PCGS.
  • Four of the five coins I intend to sell are PQ. Sounds promising.
  • Only one of the four Old Green Holder coins is PQ, the 1914 MS64. Old Green Holders may not be as PQ as many (I) believe.
  • The only Old Blue Holder coin (bar code on the reverse) is PQ, the 1925-S MS62. And old blue ones might be better.
  • Of the coins I had submitted raw to PCGS, there were no surprises. Two did not CAC.  Both of these were graded by PCGS several years ago, circa 2004-5, and I recall thinking PCGS had been generous in both cases. The other four were rated PQ by CAC. Two were submitted to PCGS many years ago and two more recently. Ok, one of the more recent ones is a bit of a surprise.
  • One of the PQ 1913-D Type I 2F MS64s was graded MS63 by NGC when I purchased it unattributed.
  • I should view more MS65 and higher coins to get a better feel for them. This would be a reason to keep the 1931-S MS66.

Once the coins return I may have some more observations. Or corrections. Enjoy!

3 comments to CAC

  • Breakdown

    Richard,

    Thanks for sharing your experience on CAC. I submit through a dealer I work closely with and am a firm believer in CAC and their mission. John Albanese knows Buffalos and is a very good resource for helping your grading skills.
    Your experience with the OGH’s is very interesting. I think that as a general matter, PCGS was more strict when the OGHs were used but the have been picked over by crackout artists, dealers and sharp collectors over the years so that the main way an OGH may still be important is if it has come out of a long hibernation, so to speak. It is also a nice hedge that the coin will likely not change or has not been messed with. As you probably know, there are a lot of Buffalos out there that have been messed with at some point so an OGH does have value in this way, even if it is not high end for the grade. My guess is that OGHs that have floated around the bourse floor for years are in OGH holders for a reason.
    Enjoy the website and one of these days I will try to start a thread. I am not a variety collector but I love Buffalos.

  • Richard

    Thanks Breakdown. I enjoy working on the site although sometimes I don’t have as much time as I would like.

    I agree my experience with the OGHs was “interesting” and a bit surprising. Of course, the coin is always the coin, regardless of the holder, and this was a very small sampling of coins. I still do like the OGHs for the stability factor. But in this (small) case, I’ve owned these OGHs for quite a while – I purchased two of them (that did not CAC) in October, 1995. I should say I do believe one is PQ (the 64), but I’ll take another close look at all of them when they return. Enjoy!

  • Richard

    Looking at the coins after they came back to me was not very revealing, but here is what I may have discovered.
    1) I included two coins (one MS62 the other MS63) that were well-struck, but poorly defined on the reverse due to a well-worn die. The MS62 received a sticker while the MS63 did not. Perhaps a MS63 can’t be PQ without a reasonably well-defined strike.
    2) Luster is very important (by which I mean, more important than I had thought). With perhaps one exception, the eight most lustrous coins received stickers.
    3) Eye appeal also is very important. With perhaps one exception, the eight coins I like the most received stickers.
    4) Even very small black carbon spots are a significant negative (again, more than I had thought). None of the coins that received stickers had carbon spots.
    5) A minor lamination did not prevent a coin from receiving a sticker.
    6) Next time I should include some coins which I felt PCGS had been too harsh in their assessment. I have a couple of those :)
    7) I still like the OGH MS64 that did not receive a sticker.

    My next submission to CAC likely will be Walking Liberty halves, but if I include some buffaloes, I’ll let you know how that goes.

    Enjoy!

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